Gold Jacket, Green Jacket...
I’m upset about news of the new pope.
Upset, but not surprised
I guess I was just hoping for some tiny sign
A message that the church was open to progressive change, however small
The new pope, Pope Benedict XVI, would most likely say that what I want is relativism, which according to him is letting oneself be “swept along by every wind of teaching.”
I have never been swept along by anything in my life and I resent the implication that those who yearn for change within the church don’t have strong beliefs and are simply mindless slaves to public opinion.
And according to him fundamentalism is actually “having a clear faith” based on the church’s creed.
Now that is a terrifying statement.
Pope Benedict XVI “has been the driving force behind crackdowns on liberation theology, religious pluralism, challenges to traditional moral teachings on issues such as homosexuality, and the dissent on such issues as women’s ordination.”
I’m done.
Mark it down people…it’s official. Whenever I do end up getting married, I will be the first person in our family not to get married in a Catholic Church.
PS- A big thanks to Liz and Nick for last night. Without them, I never would have been able to get Jeff the perfect anniversary present. I haven’t given it to him, so I can’t reveal the details just yet…but Operation Anniversary was a huge success…Off Air!
Psst…Happy 2 year my love
“I'm only here tonight because of you. You are the reason I am. You are all my reasons.”
18 Comments:
Come to the dark side Mary! See what the rage was all about with Martin Luther! I think his 95 theises will provide you with the answers you need. John and Chris make great points but ummm, there's one thing, these religions are MAN (not even inclusive human) made, and man makes mistakes in trying to worship perfection. And yes John God tells us what to believe...priests, popes, and the male clergy can make mistakes and their tradition tells us what to believe. God created beautiful women and made them the strongest, most faithful, individuals in the Bible - I missed the part that they are substandard and should not publicly express their love and struggles in trying to honor the lord, let alone should really steer clear of the altar (see John Paul II writings on altar girls). The Catholic Church makes mistakes -that's ok, what is not ok with me is a religion that is unwilling to take a hard look at itself and fix those mistakes. Not helping Jews during the Holocaust, being slow to call for the end of descrimination of blacks in this country, truning a blind eye to child abuse - mistake! Or in the case of Martin Luther, selling relics to the rich for a quick slip through pergatory to heaven, mmmm...well to me doesn't seem kosher (pardon the expression). Catholism is a beautiful religion, and has some beautiful traditions and I have made my reconciliation with the Catholic church, but God has given me the strength and courage to practice my faith as a Christian in a different house of worship. So don't worry as far as the folks are concerned on our side I've already soften the blow for you guys (that is if the wedding would involved Jeff) on our side. And I have some serious information gaps in the Boyd gossip! Is Amy pregnant too?! How exciting and Krissy hasn't been publishing comments, how is her little bundle doing? Later gator
I'm sorry John, but at what point did we "people" ever concede that religion wasn't supposed to change? At what point did Catholic believers agree to be sheep to the beliefs the Church dishes out? Enlighten me, because I think I missed that part of the assumpt..discussion.
My point is that religion is not unambiguous, as you claim a religion must be, but rather the reflection of the faith and spirituality of its people.
Under your definition, it sounds you'd be content to let people of the Church and other religions bang their heads into a theological wall simply because a stubborn dogma is the point of "religion". Call me a progressive or a relativist -- whatever words Benedict XVI and fellow conservative Catholics would like to use disdainfully for my position -- I'd rather work for change than mute my own sense of faith, of religious duty, and what it means to be Catholic.
Becoming silent, to me, seems like cutting off our nose to spite our face. As my brilliant sister pointed out, the Catholic religion, just like all religions, is a man-made construct capable of making mistakes. To say otherwise ignores, well, all the mistakes it's made in the past, as she pointed out.
As Mary thoughtfully pointed out, we are not being swept along by anything. I too resent the notion that those who "yearn for change within the church don’t have strong beliefs and are simply mindless slaves to public opinion."
And for Chris -- we began to get into this that night on the surf trip. What are the consistent, traditional values that you look to for the Church to provide and find appealing? I don't want to sound over-aggressive, but as your friend, I'm interested in knowing specifically what those values are that lead you to its defense, beyond "our belief in Jesus Christ" and other vagueries.
Well Mary Boyd, you have done it again. I think it is great! First, congrats on the 2 years you and Jeff have spent together and many wishes for the years ahead.
Now...Benedict...well I was not surprised by the decision at all. I was discouraged, however. Indeed the Catholic religion does have amazing traditions! I still remain true to my religion because in the end I believe it is about God and me, not about the Pope or a priest...they will not decide which way I go when my time here is over. With that said, I am incredibly irritated at the fact that not only has this man been labeled a "transitory" Pope, but he has ties to the Nazi regime. I am not saying that we needed to elect someone with the hope he too would last 26 years,but I think that if they were truly looking for a transition Pope then why did they not look for a moderate, or at least someone from Africa/Latin America who has experienced 1 priest for every 50,000 worshipping Catholics. Tradition is great, but will it not too crumble if the Catholic Religion loses it's followers because of it's traditions? Is tradition still great if it turns people away?
And let us not forget, this man was part of the Nazi regime in Germany. Maybe it was forced, I am sure it was...but regardless. How can this man gain the enormous respect of other religions, (i.e. Judaism) with this in his past. It makes me sick that we have elected a Pope who was linked to one of the most grotesque displays of mankind.
I understand one can be forgiven, but I think we are all being naive if we assume that he will unite people. Maybe I am wrong-I hope I am. Maybe this man will make decisions that stray from his conservative side. This man has been known as "God's Rottweiler?" Just ponder that for a moment.
I believe my ramblings have gone on long enough. I could go on forever about this, but I will not. I am discouraged by the decision. We shall see what the future holds. For now...I just remember that "in the final analysis- it is between you and God. It was was never between you and them anyways."
Hey again Mary.
Just wanted to let you know that I am the "Anonymous." I forgot my password so I just logged in with that. Let me know.
Love ya Mary~ Jack (:
Mary Kay,
i am sure that there are many, many people who feel the way you do - torn by the Catholic church. Not in agreeance with many of the teachings, but still believing the basics. And that's what i remind myself. When i stand in church, i am not asked to profess my belief that there should be no male priests, that homosexuality is a sin, etc. i am asked to profess that i believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of Heaven and Earth, of all that is seen and unseen. That i believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ. And i do it with a group of people who believe it, too. And while others in the pew with me might have different views on the "issues" of the church, we can all agree on what we are professing in those pews. We are professing our faith - and that's something no pope can change!
And if you can't take anything away from the church, you can at least remember that our family is a result of that faith. Of those beliefs and of that upbringing. And that has made for some pretty incredible people and experiences.
Love you, Love, Jay
Today's Gospel, April 21st, 2005:
"Amen, Amen, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master; nor is he who is sent greater than he who sent him. If you know these things, blessed are you if you do them. I am not speaking of you all; I know whom I have chosen; it is that the scripture may be fulfilled, 'He who ate my bread has lifted his heel against me.' I tell you this now, before it takes place, that when it does take place you may believe that I am he. Amen, amen I say to you, he who receives anyone whom I send receives me; and he who receives me receives him who sent me." (John 13:16-20)
Let's give His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI a chance, now that he is the Holy Father and no longer acting solely as Guardian of the Faith. Let's open up our minds before we call him closed-minded. The pope not only takes on a new name, he takes on a new identity, our beloved "German Shepherd."
See Pope Benedict XVI's first message:
http://www.zenit.org/english/
I do not believe that I ever stated the newly elected Pope was a Nazi? I am not an idiot and I would never make such a generalization. I have never once believed the Pope was a Nazi or supported anything that was going on. However, thank you for generalizing my words.
Jackie
Chris,
I appreciate your comments. I respect your view and I thank you for pointing out how words can be interpretted. In all seriousness, I thank you for taking the time to point that out to me.
Jackie
"I think after that post, you are officially banned from ever considering yourself a Catholic."
I'll have to consult my Catholic Encyclopedia but I believe John's attempt at excommunicating Jeff wasn't quite kosher....Nope, I checked, we definitely can't excommunicate each other through Mary's Blog. Well that's good. In case you ever run into anyone who actually has the authority to kick you out of our church, here are the officially sanctioned extenuating circumstances that will mitigate your offenses.
(1) Lack of the full use of reason.
(2) Lack of liberty resulting from grave fear.
(3) Ignorance.
Mary, how can you swear off a church that accepts "Ignorance" as an excuse?
Next issue- The Catholic Church doesn’t change and is never wrong? Alright I was at Catholic.com for quite a while with this one. Apparently the Church has apologized for the way it ignored Jews during the holocaust or the way it gently persuaded Galileo but that in no way demeans Papal Infallibility. A couple Money Quotes: Fundamentalists and other "Bible Christians" often confuse the charism of papal "infallibility" with "impeccability." They imagine Catholics believe the pope cannot sin. And Infallibility, applies only to solemn, official teachings on faith and morals, not to disciplinary decisions or even to unofficial comments on faith and morals. A pope’s private theological opinions are not infallible, only what he solemnly defines is considered to be infallible teaching. Doesn’t this sound a little bit like Bill Clinton trying to define the word “is”?
I was quite relieved with what I learned, Mary this is the greatest Bible Study ever, anyway I guess when a Pope decides to relocate a pedophile to a new parish and to a whole new flock of little boys, that is simply a disciplinary action and Jesus has no hand in it. But when a Pope decrees that homosexuality is a sin and gays will spend all eternity nuzzled up between Satan and Saddam Hussein—that is the word of our Lord and Savior. Lastly, the idea that is wrong to question the Church or pray for change struck me as ridiculous. If every Catholic in America who disagreed with one aspect of their Church left to “greener” pastures, how many congregations would remain?
Kasey,
I think you are muddling two issues that need to be clarified - there is a difference between disagreeing with what the Pope believes and disagreeing with what the Catholic church stands for. On personal issues such as relocating priests to other parishes, I have no problem with anyone who disagrees with the pope's decision; but like you said - "Fundamentalists and other "Bible Christians" often confuse the charism of papal "infallibility" with "impeccability."" - this goes both ways.
In other words, John and my argument focused entirely on those "infallible" concerns the Church is rooted in that people want to change.
The whole point of this argument can be summarized with what a friend said to me yesterday, "If you are a true Christian, your focus is not on who is the pope, or the priest, or the clergy. It is on God. The argument that people make for female priests just shows that their focus is not on God or even the church, their focus is on themselves. Catholicism is not a power struggle, or even a democracy. It is FAITH... it is RELIGION."
I wasn't going to comment again on this...but congratulations Chris, your ridiculous and insulting comment about how people that push for female priests are focused on themselves rather than God has forced me out of hiding...expect a response in the near future.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Mary
As an FYI -
I did not say that comment, that was a quote by a friend of mine.
The whole point of quoting him was not to insult you (and I'm sorry it came across that way) - it was to simply say the same argument John/Stroka/I have been trying to defend - the church is not a government. Our religion is not a political view, it is a belief based on 2000 years of doctrine that you can either agree with, accept, or reject.
..And David
I don't know who you are, but thanks for insulting all the millions of Catholics in the world.
It's one thing to disagree with a religion, but to insult all those who believe in it is uncalled for.
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'Two tickets torn in half
And a lot of nothing to do
Do you ...like you say you do?'
I'm ready for you to be back in person.
-The One
John, Chris, and Tom,
Check your email.
-Jeff
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